Mental Health
CASH: Hello, my name is Richard Cash. I am a visiting professor at the Public Health Foundation of India and on the faculty of the Harvard School of Public Health. I am here with Dr. Vikram Patel, who is also with the Public Health Foundation of India and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. We’re here to discuss mental health issues from a global perspective. Vikram, let me ask you, why do you feel that mental health issues are such an important topic to address?
VIKRAM PATEL: Well Richard, the first thing to say is that when we talk about mental health, we’re typically actually talking about mental illness and mental disabilities. And I think for many people the word mental illness and mental disabilities tends to reflect a particular kind of, of syndrome, characterized by agitated behavior and disturbed thinking. But in fact when we talk about mental illness, we’re talking of an extremely wide range of health conditions affecting people across the life course.
Consider for example we would include conditions like autism and intellectual disability in early childhood, ADHD and anxiety disorders in middle childhood, depression and self-harm behaviors in adolescence, psychosis and substance use in adulthood and dementia in old age. And for a moment if you start thinking of this range of conditions and thinking that almost everyone in the world must know at least one person who is affected by one of these conditions, you realize that the single most important reason why these are of significance is because they’re incredibly common. They affect people everywhere, in our immediate social networks and in our populations in large numbers.
CASH: But given the commonality of these conditions, which I certainly agree with, why has mental health. Why have mental health issues not been so much a part of the major agenda of global health programs? You hear about it, you’ve heard about it more recently. But it has traditionally not been an area of broad interest and discussion.
PATEL: I think that’s a really important question. You know I think we’ve been struggling to find out why, in spite of the evidence of the large numbers of people who are affected, there is such little interest to respond to the needs of these people. And I think there are several possible explanations for this. The first is, I think we’ve had very little evidence on the impact that these conditions have on people’s daily lives. For example, we now know today that mental illnesses are amongst the leading causes of household impoverishment, that poverty and mental illness for example are natural bedfellows. People who live in conditions of poverty are more likely to develop mental illnesses. And if you have a mental illness, you’re more likely to slide into poverty. A typical vicious cycle. Another example of an impact is the impact on caregivers and family members. So we now know today that many mental illnesses are associated with the need for informal carers at home. Effectively meaning that family members have to give up work or other forms of productive employment in order to actually care for the person at home. So these are just two examples of impacts that are typically not measured by typical health metrics, in terms of for example, mortality. These are social outcomes. And today we’re beginning to recognize that the social consequences of mental illness are enormous and therefore need attention. The second kind of evidence gap, it has to be said, was that for far too long we only parroted numbers. But we couldn’t really describe solutions. And I think that has been a dramatic change in the last decade or so in which we can now talk about effective interventions, but perhaps more importantly, ways that we can deliver these interventions even in places where there are very few specialist resources.
CASH: Let me hone in on this last issue, the issue of what in fact can be done to reduce the impact of this huge number of conditions that you’ve outlined. What interventions are there that in fact can reduce the morbidity, the caretaking needs of these individuals? And I would probably add, even mortality since there’s probably a good bit of excess mortality, premature mortality associated with mental health conditions. What can we do?
PATEL: So before I go to the what-can-we-do, I’d actually like to just build on your last point about excess mortality. I completely agree with you. If one looks at the global burden of disease statistics, you will find that mental illnesses account for a relatively small fraction of years of life lost, due to premature mortality. But that’s because of a peculiar way in which years of life lost are computed. So for example, suicide is not attributed to mental illness. It counts as an independent cause of death in the injury categorization of the global burden of disease. So you’re absolutely correct. The true mortality, true estimates of mortality that could be attributed to mental illness have been underestimated historically. And if one includes suicide as well as the effects of mental illness on other chronic diseases, the risk of chronic disease like cardiovascular disease, in fact one could argue that the mortality associated with mental illness is very high. And of course you can add dementia to that list as well. So the true burden of mental illness in terms of mortality has been historically underestimated. In countries like India, we’ve shown that suicide today is the leading cause of death in young people. And in fact this is true of many countries around the world today. And if one argues that the young people of countries like India are the, are the demographic engine of these economies, then the fact that suicide is the leading cause of death in this, this demographic group must be cause of concern to the highest levels of policymakers. But let me come to your, your main question, which is really about how do we deliver these? First of all, what interventions do we have and how do we deliver, deliver them? Actually we’ve had knowledge about effective interventions, drug interventions. For example, anti-psychotic drugs for schizophrenia, psychological interventions such as for example, cognitive behavior therapy for depression and social interventions such as for example, support groups for people with alcohol abuse disorders. I just give three examples here. But the problem has been that for many people, the impression is that to deliver these interventions you need highly qualified mental health professionals, psychiatrists, psychologists and, and the like. And the reality of course in the global context is there are few of these mental health professionals in most parts of the world. So in effect there’s been a sense of nihilism, we can’t really do anything about delivering these interventions, because we don’t have the requisite human resources for them. Actually I draw a parallel with this nihilism to what we saw with HIV/AIDS and I’m ure you’ll remember. It wasn’t that long ago when people said, we couldn’t really deliver life-saving treatments in Africa because we didn’t have the human resource and medical infrastructure to deliver antiretroviral drugs. And we’ve come a long way since then. And I think in the mental health field we’ve drawn lessons from the global HIV/AIDS story and begun to apply the same sorts of health system intervention innovations and shown in fact, that as with HIV/AIDS, one can deliver effective interventions even in low resource settings by using alternative human resources and alternative ways of delivering services.
CASH: Let me return a bit to this mortality and morbidity issue that we touched on. How do you approach the situation where the individual’s mental, mental health may well affect many, many others in the community? Most diseases we look at is how it affects the individual, but in this instance as you pointed out, there are caretakers, there are others and I think it’s been shown in a number of studies that, of those individuals incarcerated in prison, very high percentage of them suffer from some form of mental illness. So that the impact of individuals with these conditions on family members and on society itself would seem to me to be rather significant and yet I don’t see how this is ever counted.
PATEL: You’re absolutely right, it isn’t counted. And even though it’s not counted, mental illnesses already are considered to be among the major causes, uh, health related causes of loss of economic growth potential in countries. If you actually counted the non-health impacts of mental illness and I think you brought up some great examples, one which we often under count is the impact of untreated mental illness on the criminal justice system. And a good example of would that be disruptive behavior disorders in adolescents and its relationship to you know offending behavior which then leads to a consequence to do with incarceration and so on. So there are many hidden costs or uncounted costs due with mental illness which I think further raise the further highlight why we need to prioritize mental health in the global health agenda. In addition to these uncounted costs is the untold society of the human rights abuses that continue to be played out every day against people with mental illness. I’d suggest to you that there is no human health condition that is associated with such systematic denial of basic human rights, basic as in for example the right to live a life in freedom, a right to live a life with dignity, without being incarcerated against your will, et cetera. I cannot think of any group of conditions that is associated with such a denial of human rights as mental illnesses. Today you will see instances of people being denied their basic rights in communities. People being chained to trees, in homes, being tied to their beds. But perhaps most tragically of all being sent to prison rather than hospital in for example, in some of the richest countries of the world as in the U.S. where prisons have become de facto mental hospitals. And finally in mental health care centers where people are often abused in a variety of ways. `So it seems to me that if one considers one of the driving forces of global health as being issues around human rights, then that potentially indicates the great importance of mental health as a global health priority.
CASH: Let me go back again and explore other possible reasons that you noted early on as to why this set of conditions may not be addressed. And that is that of stigmatization. The, the notion that mental illness, that people who are mentally ill are possessed, that they stigmatize families, that is that the very, the very notion of a person who is not following the norms of society is somehow tainted or possessed in other ways that we can’t explain. Might that also play a large role in why we are uncomfortable in touching this set of conditions? Or why we, we relegate it to other non-health elements in society that try to expunge these, these ideas and these feelings?
PATEL: Clearly stigma plays a very important role in explaining why people shun those who have mental illness, why people are uncomfortable discussing this topic and why people are reluctant to respond to the needs of people with mental illness. But equally, I should say that stigma isn’t unique to mental illness. We have seen in medical history stigma being attached to a number of health conditions. Consider for example leprosy, but also more recently HIV/AIDS, a very feared disease. And the point I, make about both of bringing physical health conditions into this discourse is that there are important lessons to be drawn from the ways that we’ve been able to address stigma against people living with HIV/AIDS or leprosy, we can learn from and apply to mental illness. And to me one of those important lessons is making effective treatments available. I think that if you make effective treatments available, close to people’s homes, in the community of primary care context as opposed to locking people away as they did with leprosy some time ago, do you remember, historically we used to lock people away with leprosy in sanatoria? We did the same thing with people with HIV/AIDS, we took them away from their homes and stuck them in prisons and other sorts of institutions. But instead today what we see with leprosy and HIV, a decentralization of care and availability of care in routine healthcare setting. And I believe that that has been a very powerful force in combating stigma. And I think the same lesson should be extended to mental illness.
CASH: So that the idea that we can actually provide care, let’s be more widely, more widely spread and people need to be better educated about this, because you’re suggesting that by having care available, people say well okay, we can do something about this. I suspect that if there was no treatment for HIV, we would not be nearly as far along as you suggest we are. That is if HIV was still the, the universal killer that it was in the late ’80s, we’d be in a different place right now.
PATEL: Yeah, absolutely. Of course. The fact that you can now live with HIV, that you can live a healthy, productive life with treatment has transformed people’s view of HIV. It’s not surprising though. So if I told you that I could with effective treatment enable recovery from say, depression or schizophrenia, it becomes a less feared condition, naturally it does.
CASH: We have tended to see, it seems to me, mental illness as an individual issue. That is, we have someone who has a condition and we treat that condition. What about looking at mental illness as a societal issue? That is, that, that the way society is structured, the way society puts values on certain things can have a major impact on both the mitigation of this and maybe even the development of medical health conditions. How do you see that particular issue, individual versus a larger population based approach?
PATEL: Yeah. So that’s a difficult question to answer because of the very heterogeneous nature of mental illnesses. And so a single answer will not apply to all conditions. So what I mean is that in the range of mental illnesses that I spoke about a little earlier, social determinants, societal influences will play a different role according to the kind of condition we’re talking about. There are some conditions that are very heavily influenced by individual vulnerabilities. And those tend to be often biological. Hallmark examples of that might be autism and schizophrenia and dementia.Then there are other conditions which are much commoner and where I believe societal factors play just as important a role as individual factors. And I think the hallmark conditions there would be things like depression, self-harm behavior, and substance use disorders. Amongst those conditions there’s no doubt in my mind that societal factors are important. I’ll give you one example. One example might be the way alcohol is perceived by a community in terms of its role as a recreational substance. There is no question that when you have a permissive attitude towards alcohol the proportion of people who will drink will be greater. It’s natural. And the more people who drink in a population just by simple epidemiological estimates you will have more people with alcohol use problems. Which is why you often find that the prevalence of alcohol use disorders tends to be higher amongst, in those communities where there is a more liberal attitude towards alcohol. That is not to say the liberal attitudes at fault, it’s simply to demonstrate how a societal influence can have an impact on the prevalence of a mental disorder. Similarly with depression, we see that the rates of depression in substance use tend to be higher in those populations in which there’s greater inequality. I think the best example of this comes from work done in OECD countries where there is a very clear relationship between the prevalence of drug use and depression and income inequality, such that the more unequal a society the higher the prevalence. Now exactly why that happens, it’s still unclear. But there is a clear observation of that association.
CASH: Given the extensive prevalence of mental health conditions, it would seem that almost every society then, even if it’s ignored by the medical establishment will have developed its own ways of dealing with this, through traditional practitioners or other approaches, religious-wise, non-religious, non-physicians, non-health people. Do you find that in fact this is the case, that there are, that there are structures, that there are elements within most of the societies in which you’ve worked and I know you’ve worked in, certainly in Europe and Africa and in South Asia and so on, that are supportive of or valuable in looking at those elements that might deal more effectively with this condition?
PATEL: So I think your question really points to a very important potential resource in every community in the world to address mental health problems and those are traditional and informal providers. I strongly endorse the role of these providers for multiple reasons. First of all, they’re just very much more numerous. Historically, people have felt comfortable going to these providers because these providers share with their local communities a common understanding of the sorts of phenomena that we associate with mental illness. So engaging traditional providers within a public health response for mental health conditions I think seems like a sensible way forward. Having said that, a couple of caveats. The first is that many traditional providers also commit fairly serious offenses of human rights. So one should not use a, a brush to sort of romanticize the whole of traditional medicine. And in fact, some of the worst abusers of human rights take place in traditional medicine. And also one shouldn’t forget that traditional medicine is expensive. It’s a private practice. And so I don’t see this as an alternative to a publicly provided primary mental healthcare system, I see it as a complimentary system with which we should establish a dialogue with, of mutual respect and insure that people with mental health problems are being well managed with adequate quality in both systems. The second thing I want to say is that, and link to the first point, is that traditional systems of medicine were also used for physical health problems. It’s not true to say that there were only for, for mental health problems. It’s not long ago when I remember when I worked in Zimbabwe that the most common treatment for HIV/AIDS used to be a whole set of traditional interventions like herbs that were used. And, and people completely rejected the biomedical approach. I’m talking of as recently as the 1990s. And I think in that sense, the same analogy could be applied to mental health, that is to say, why have people started using biomedical services in such large numbers for HIV? It is because the service is available. It’s affordable. It’s accessible. It’s of good quality. And I think the same basic principles of healthcare should also be extended to the public healthcare system. I say this only because very often I hear policymakers say, oh but in our country you know we’ve historically gone to traditional medical practitioners of mental illness, almost as a way of absolving themselves of a responsibility to develop a public mental healthcare system clear that that is not actually the right strategy.
CASH: Since most of the practitioners, be they of the allopathic system or the traditional system, are men, and yet many of the other half of the population has issues that oftentimes are unrelated to their own experience and after all, the, the care that we deliver is often related to our experience, to what we’ve gone through and, and yet there are very few women practitioners that I’m aware of, maybe more at the village level. Is this an issue and how do you address it?
PATEL: So first of all, I want to just touch on the issue of gender and mental health more broadly, as a social determinant. And I think there’s a profound interaction just as there is with poverty and mental illness. There’s a profound interaction between gender and mental illness. So for example, women who suffer from severe mental illness often are far more likely to be stigmatized and discriminated against than men. In south India for example in, in fact in India more generally, a man with mental illness is, is much more likely to get married than a woman is, because the general idea is that the wife will look after him. But there’s no opposite opportunity for the woman. Gender and, and mental illness interact in many ways. Women are much more likely to suffer depression and that’s often to do with the far greater difficulties in terms of life events that they face in their daily lives. But equally men are more likely to suffer substance use disorders. And that’s because again, of the definition of masculinity and, and, and the idea that the, the definition of masculinity included within it the idea that, that young men will get intoxicated in many parts of the world. And that makes them more vulnerable to develop substance use conditions. Now the question you asked is a somewhat different one. Should there be gender matching you know in a sense? Should women with mental health problems more likely to be able to discuss their problems with other women or vice versa? I think it’s an interesting question, I’ve often thought about that. And certainly all the work that I do with community health workers, most of our community health agents are actually women. And so it’s usually the other way around, that we look at challenges, are men more likely to be able to discuss their personal problems in their substance use problems with women community based workers? And my experience so far has been yes, it does happen, but it’s very infrequent. And it’s so infrequent that it doesn’t really justify a male worker for a male patient and a female worker for a female patient. I think it’s logistically quite complex, but also practically, I haven’t found in my experience that most men feel uncomfortable talking about their problems with a female counselor, especially if that counselor, a therapist is well-trained to deal with gender issues, which clearly must be an important part of their, of their competencies.
CASH: Vikram, we’ve spent a lot of time on talking about treatment therapy, let me look at the issue of prevention. Are there things that we can do as societies, as families that could reduce the incidence of conditions either in childhood or later on in life? The preventive aspects of mental health. DR. PATEL: So once again, I want to just remind ourselves that we’re talking about a very heterogeneous group of conditions, each which has its own etiology and life course trajectory. So a single answer will not be able to address all of them. There are some conditions which unfortunately the knowledge that we have today about etiology is extremely weak. And so therefore preventive interventions which typically would target risk factors or, or strengthen protective factors therefore have much less evidence to support their design and implementation. But there are others for which we do have much better evidence. And if I had to answer the question, what are the best buys for prevention in the mental health sector, I would start with early child development. So interventions that promote early child development and parenting interventions across childhood into adolescence to me are the best buys for preventing mental health problems both in childhood as well as in adulthood. The second best buy for me would be strengthening life skills in adolescence. Of course this is done both at home, but importantly also in schools where adolescents and children spend extended periods of their lives, but also where some of the determinants of mental illness actually take place. For example, bullying and academic pressure. So that would be my second best buy. The third best buy would be regulatory and legislative interventions that promote the rights of people with mental illness, prevent discrimination. And in the case of alcohol and suicide, where there are regulatory interventions limiting access, so for example, in the case of suicide, limiting access to lethal means, in the case of alcohol, just as with tobacco, taxation is a very cost effective preventive intervention. These would be in my view, I might have missed a couple here or there, but these would be the best buys in the prevention field.
CASH: What is being done at global level to deal with this large burden of disease? We’ve talked about sort of individual communities and so on. But is there, are there any types of global movements, global initiatives that are trying to address this problem? DR. PATEL: Yes, there are many. And in fact that’s the positive story about global mental health is that finally the evidence that has been generated over the last few decades of the burden, the effective interventions and the effective delivery methods in lower resource settings are finally having an impact. So let me give you some examples of the impacts that we’re seeing that indicate the importance that mental health is being given in global health and development. In 2013, the World Health Organization passed a resolution unanimously from all the member states for a comprehensive mental health action plan that sought to make every country commit to a set of actions that would improve access to care, promote mental health, strengthen research and governance for mental health by the year 2020. Another example would be at the national level. Countries committing new resources and new ways of thinking about addressing mental health problems. You’re seeing this mostly in the middle income countries of the world where there are more resources for health. The best examples would be the sort of mental healthcare reforms you’re seeing in countries like China, where more than 4 million people, 4 million people with serious mental illness are now registered with China’s universal mental healthcare system, which is called the 686 program and provides a community based care model for people with serious mental illness. You see similar examples in many other countries. Let’s look at another example of change which is research. There is now renewed interest in implementation research in the mental health sector. And major funders such as the NIH are committing new resources. By my back of the envelope calculation, since 2011 when we published the grand challenges in global mental health, more than $70 million U.S. dollars have now been committed for new research, to support the grand challenges in global mental health. So these are two very important examples. But I want to really finish with a third very important example which is the mobilization of people with mental illness to speak for themselves, to speak for their rights, to advocate and demand for action by governments to address their needs. And one example of that is the movement for global mental health. It’s a virtual movement. It’s a virtual platform upon which people with mental illness, professionals and policymakers can stand shoulder to shoulder, together as it were, a combined front and demand actions from government and other stakeholders to address the unmet needs of people living with mental illness worldwide.
CASH: Vikram, we talked about interventions, various strategies that countries have used and are using. Maybe you could focus your attention on low-income countries because the argument always is well we just don’t have the resources to make any significant interventions. We can’t give these drugs out. That there’s a lot of issues that impact on our ability to do anything. How do you address that issue?
PATEL: If I had to choose a single innovation or solution, it would be to empower a cadre of community based workers, using exactly the same model that many low-income countries have used to improve maternal and child health, community based workers with the requisite competencies to detect mental health problems, provide first level psycho-social interventions and refer up the healthcare system to the more specialized providers. Alongside that, mobilize people, raise awareness, et cetera. This would be the single most important innovation I would recommend. Obviously twinned with that, ensuring adequate skills in primary health centers to diagnose and deliver pharmacological treatments and making sure that a, a basic basket of cost effective drugs are available in primary healthcare would be a second important recommendation.
CASH: Vikram, I’d like to thank you very much for a very stimulating discussion on global mental health issues. I’m sure there is much we haven’t covered, but I think we’ve made a good, you have made a very good intro into this very important and up until recently, ignored aspect of human health.
Thank you. DR. PATEL: Thank you, Richard.